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tv   The Last Word  MSNBC  November 29, 2012 10:00pm-11:00pm PST

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everyone. everyone with dignity. >> vice president joe biden speaking tonight at a memorial for former republican senator warren rudman of new hampshire. who died last week at the age of 82. in politics -- even in politics, sometimes party is the thing that matters least of all. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. have a great night. another day and the republicans have made absolutely no progress in trying to force president obama to do what they want him to do. and no, sending mitt romney to lunch at the white house today didn't help. congress has just ten legislative days before going off a cliff. >> the political theater over the fiscal cliff. >> mr. obama sends his chief negotiator. >> treasury secretary tim geithner. >> who was on capitol hill right now. >> reaching out to capitol hill. >> the push is on to get a deal. >> no substantive progress has been made in the talks. >> literally no progress.
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>> bad news, bad news, bad news. >> this is the moment of posturing. >> a lot of posturing. >> until we hear good news. >> the framework of the deal is beginning to emerge. >> i'll do whatever it takes to get this done. >> we have a debt crisis. >> i'll do anywhere and do whatever it takes. >> all eyes on the white house. >> they're going to get right up to cliff on new year's eve. we're all going to be hugging cliff. >> it's like when a fish show starts. the crowd -- >> i hope nobody catches that reference. >> all eyes on the white house. >> together again. >> what's his name? >> table for two. >> don't help me, don't help me. >> mr. romney goes to washington. >> mitt romney makes his way to the white house. >> the political power lunch of 2012. >> it's not exactly the way he wanted to get there. >> president obama and mitt romney meeting for the first time, privately. >> when we say private, we mean private. >> no cameras. >> no cameras allowed. >> no staff. >> to move forward and have a lunch. it's weird. >> there's really no agenda. >> it's weird!
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>> it's really to bury the hatchet. >> mitt romney comes to washington. guess whose coming to lunch? >> rip flamba. >> we are now 33 days away from the fiscal curb, and democrats are telling republicans that it's their move. >> we are not going to negotiate with us. we have made a proposal through the president of the united states. that proposal said we should revert back to the same tax plan that we had when clinton was president. you can't get from here to there unless you raise the upper rates. and that's what the president suggested, it's up to them to come forward with something congressman from oklahoma said that the house should simply take up the bill that the democrats passed in the senate that would raise income taxes only on the top income tax brackets. another senior republican lawmaker who asked not to be identified this time told
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reuters that the democratic bill could pass in the house of representatives if john boehner would allow such a bill to be brought to the house floor for a vote. here is boehner speaking about the president earlier today. >> members of his own party seem quite comfortable with sending the economy over the fiscal cliff. no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. >> speaker boehner doesn't want to propose spending cuts, so now he's trying to pressure the white house to do it. >> there's been no serious discussion of spending cuts so far. and unless there is, there's a real danger of going off the fiscal cliff. >> a reporter asked senate majority leader harry reid about speaker boehner's comments. >> he says that democrats have got to get serious about cuts, spending cuts. where is the disconnect then? >> i don't understand his brain, so you should ask him. okay?
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>> and, of course, another day more republicans dumping grover norquist. among nebraska and is iowa republicans, most of them told the world herald this week they could support a broad budget agreement, even if the deal ends up including higher tax revenues. i won't have a problem with letting those tax rates go up, representative mike simpson said to reuters. but new york congressman chris gibson found the most creative way out of his relationship with grover. his spokesman released a statement reading, the congressman signed the pledge as a candidate in 2010 for the 20th congressional district. carson gibson doesn't plan to re-sign it for the 19th congressional district, which he now represents. the pledge is to your constituents of a numbered district.
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>> we're very happy with any rationale that helps republicans accept decoupling of the bush tax cuts. and so speaker boehner this morning said there's no progress. but all you have to do is just listen to what's happening out there. and you know there is progress. >> i think when we listen to what's happening out there is the sound of panic. chris hayes bursting into applause for congressman gibson >> brilliantly done. with precision. >> yeah. that was for the 19th congressional, not the 20th congressional. but -- >> isn't it kind of like breaking up with someone by changing your phone number? >> it's something like that. but joy, they're running away from grover. and now republicans afraid -- are afraid of doing something they always loved to do. propose spending cuts. they're saying to democrats, we're your spending cuts. and the democrats are saying, you know, if you want spending cuts, you're going to have to tell us what you want. >> yeah, i mean, i just smell
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abject fear almost in the republican caucus. it's interesting. today i decided to look up -- looking at the recent campaign, okay? the national republican congressional committee that raises money for house republicans and the democratic house -- the dccc. do you recall it was something like 40% of the democratic money was raised from small donors, people over 200. and for republicans it was like 8%. so republicans are far more reliant on big donors, very wealthy people, even though democrats have rich donors too. so on the one hand these very rich donors saying you need to hold the line on my taxes. but on the other hand, when they go home to their districts, the people, actual people in their district are saying why are you holding up my tax cuts just for the rich so they're being pulled in two different directions and it's got to be excruciating. and if they were to then add to that proposing cutting funding for school lunches and things like that, how do you win in that situation? >> and then on top of that is the fact that we had this entire campaign in which both major
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parties attempted to convince voters that the other major party wanted to take a hatchette to medicare. that -- that's what they wanted to do. now the election is over. and we're getting together to do the deal, and it's like, so do you want to tell them we're going to cut medicare? no, you tell them we're going to cut medicare. this is its thing -- nobody wants to cut medicare and everybody on capitol hill is trying to figure out who is going to break it to the american people. >> and we have a poll coming out today just how much the american people don't want them to be doing that stuff. the one thing the american people are certain about is, yes, let those top tax brackets go up. >> exactly. and republicans think this, too. maybe it's not a majority but something in the 40s. those rates are going up. and i think republicans understand it. i think a lot of what you're hearing, including from john boehner, is this posturing you have to do to make sure you can still raise money, obviously, as we were just saying. but at the same time, you've got to believe that he understands deep down, those rates are going up one way or another. if they can't come to an agreement, all the rates will go up. i still think that's what
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boehner would prefer. >> when we had the lame duck bush tax cut extension, which frustrated a lot of people, myself included, a lot of people on this network, okay? afterwards, if you would talk to someone from the white house, they would say, no, no, no. we've got this. we've got it all set up now, because it's going to all expire at the same me and we're goingth e all the leverage because they're going to expire. we're going to have the leverage. i was skeptical of that. but i think it is true from a negotiating standpoint, they really do have the leverage. you have people saying, oh, walk away. don't even talk to them. we shouldn't even -- that's fine. go ahead. don't talk to them. all the rates go up. >> you know who says walk away and don't talk to them? rush limbaugh. legislative strategist rush limbaugh. let's hear from him. >> so what is the leverage that the republicans have? to my mind, the only leverage they've got is to walk away from this. to stop playing! to stop talking.
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to stop playing this game. >> and you have just heard the stupidist legislative strategist of all-time. that would be absolutely fine. you walk away, democrats get higher tax rates, pretty much everything. i actually thought chris -- when this deal was done two years ago, i went on that night saying i thought it was an absolutely great deal, under the circumstances. i thought it was the absolutely best deal the president could get. i think we're seeing it now. he does, in fact, have all the leverage here. >> totally. you know what i have to say, i was so surprised that republicans voted for that sequester. i'm thinking to myself, there's got to be a catch here. they just voted essentially -- if they can't get anything done, which this congress can never get anything done -- >> but they're bet was -- the reason they voted for it is they voted for a law that they firmly believed would never occur. >> exactly. >> that's how they voted for it. >> let me just say this, though. it is still an open question how the leverage plays out and you can see the contours of a deal in which if the president's chief priority is short term stimulus -- the president's
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chief priority is start term stimulus, protecting tax rates in the top, those two things can be done at the same time. it's not very good for the long-term deficit. but as i always say, no one actually cares about the deficit. >> right. the -- there's a report out tonight that tim geithner made a fascinating proposal to boehner today which is basically get congress out of the debt ceiling game. mr. geithner proposed permanently ending congressional purview over the federal borrowing limit. republican aides revealed this. he said that congress could be allowed to pass a resolution blocking an increase in the debt limit, but that the president would be able to veto that resolution, and so then only a two-thirds -- two-thirds of lawmakers would be necessary to override a veto. put it -- put basically the debt ceiling into presidential veto land, as a spot where they would have influence. they will not go along with this. it is a brilliant and correct idea. >> it's a brilliant idea. and i think the fact that we're
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actually hearing democrats talk about the 14th amendment solution, saying the debt limit is unconstitutional in and maybe we'll go there and the fact we're actually hearing there is it discussion of putting the debt limit in this deal, just shows you how much leverage democrats have, and how essentially boehner has none. >> well, also, the president has the tremendous leverage also politically that they know of not -- of not only not facing re-election, having to deal with this in the re-election campaign environment, but having just come off a serious electoral college win. >> yeah. and i think -- i mean, it's kind of remarkable the change in tone. and it's not -- it's not the kind of abject capitulation that one might expect. or one might think might be warranted by what the voter said at the polls. but it is a modulation in tone that has been completely absent during the entirety of the first four years. there was almost nothing like this, even from day one when the president was sworn in, the first time around. we are seeing at least a little
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bit of an acknowledgment that they are on the wrong side of the majority of the american public on these key issues. >> joy, the -- my sense of what's going on here is that you're really seeing shadow boxing. that boehner knows, there is nothing i can do. we're going to have to go off the curb for my members to understand where we really are. we're going to have to have one week of the united states of america operating under higher tax brackets, higher withholding, on takehome pay. and then i'll be able to talk some sense to them. and from the president's side of it, going off the cliff, the curb, just gives him the tax rates he wants at the top and then you just have to adjust down from that. >> i agree. and i think people should generally ignore what boehner is saying and the way he's saying it. i totally agree with you. i think that boehner right now, he can't humiliate his caucus. he can't come out and publicly admit, look, we're beaten. he's got to still talk the tea party talk to the extent they have any power left. >> but he let's tom cole go out there and tell the truth. >> right.
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>> that is a boehner authorized mission, cole going out there. >> totally agree. >> chris hayes and joy reid, thank you. chris hayes' show is "up with chris hayes", the best thing you can do early weekend mornings, 8:00 a.m. on msnbc. thank you for joining me tonight. coming up, howard dean on how the democrats should handle budget negotiations with republicans. what should be on and what should be off the table. and two-time oscar winner, sally field is here. she's on her way to a third oscar with her performance in "lincoln" but the acceptance speech you'll want to see is what she had to say about her son when she received an award this year from the human rights campaign. and in the rewrite tonight, another unarmed black teenage boy is shot dead in florida. and yes, the shooter now claims he was standing his ground oh. that's coming up. ♪
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in the most awkward lunch of the year, president obama broke bread with mitt romney today. gene robinson and anna marie cox join me to discuss how and why such things happen. wooohooo....hahaahahaha! oh...there you go. wooohooo....hahaahahaha! i'm gonna stand up to her! no you're not. i know. you know ronny folks who save hundreds of dollars switching to geico sure are happy. how happy are they jimmy? happier than a witch in a broom factory.
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>> but you know who doesn't want entitlement reform in ? voters. democratic voters, independent voters, and yes, republican voters. the "washington post" abc news poll asked voters about raising the medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67, a proposal that has been floated by republicans in congress. 67% of people oppose raising the medicare eligibility age. including 71% of democrats, 62% of independents, and 68% of republicans. 68% of republican voters oppose a medicare reform proposal being floated by congressional republicans. governor howard dean, here are the republicans trying to force the democrats to go first with spending cut proposals, specifically because of that poll. they are now afraid of the
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politics of spending cuts that they've been pushing for so long. >> well, it's a ridiculous idea to go from 65 to 67. first of all, you don't save that much money. second of all, the obama health care bill is very weak on taking care of seniors, because they can charge three times as much for seniors as they can for younger people. so that just gives seniors two more years to pay three times as much as younger people if they have to go to private insurance. third, medicare is the only universal program we have, and it's got the lowest administrative costs of any program we have in health care. so this is a really foolish idea. and i hope it disappears. i am not against doing some cost control on medicare. but you don't have to cut entitlements. what you do have to do is pay by the patient, not by the procedure. as we know, there are so many people when they get to 59, 61, 62, who are just desperately waiting for that medicare eligibility moment, because costs have gotten completely out of control, and i have known plenty of people who go insuranceless for a couple of years, hoping nothing happens.
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>> i know a guy personally who had to put a hip replacement off and was -- eventually ended up on crutches and in a wheelchair until he turned 65. and if he had to wait until 67, it would be two more years in that condition. this is a terrible idea. there may be ways to save money on medicare. i think there are. this is a really bad one. >> my sense of what's going on here is that nothing is going on here. is that john boehner knows we're going to go off the curb on january 1st, the democrats and the president know, it's inevitable we go off the curb. but as responsible men of government, they can't look like they want to. so -- >> here's the deal. >> i make the argument that going off as you call it, the curb, i call it the slope, the press calls it the cliff, is actually the best deal progressive democrats are going to get. and here's why. one, we get the clinton tax rates on everybody. will it cause a problem? yes. there will be a short recession and it will be painful. but two, we get defense cuts. republicans are never going to agree to that. and three, there are some human
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services cuts which we're not going to like, but it's the least possible damage. now what do we get in exchange? a serious down payment of the deficit. the wall street people who are wringing their hands about this are really full of it. because what they're going to see is a big drop on wall street while the hype comes and then it's going to come roaring back because finally somebody has done something serious about the deficit. so i think the fiscal curb as you call it is actually the best deal that progressive democrats are going to get and i think it's the best deal in the long run, not the short run. but the long run to the american people. >> i think if we did go off, as i kind of expect we will, that congress, though, will not accept your view of look at the long-term benefits of most of this package. yes, there's some things we don't like in it, but most of the package is beneficial. and they will take some kind of action. they would immediately go into action and try to do something about the top -- about the other tax brackets below the top, and then that's when the discussion on spending cuts would really get engaged. >> i agree with that.
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and it gives the president a little more leverage, because first of all, he's got his top rate that he wants. second of all, he doesn't have to engage in some hocus pocus about quote, unquote, entitlement reform, a phrase i hate. these are things people have paid for up front. we're trying to control the costs and should do that. but cutting the benefits is a bad idea. we don't have to do that in order to save money on medicare. we can do that by changing the way we pay for it. >> and what the republicans are trying to do is join the spending discussion to the tax discussion. and if you go off the curb, you don't have to do that. >> that's right. >> the rates are taken care. now you guys want to talk about defense cuts, okay, let's talk about what these other issues over here that we care about. >> and that's the key, lawrence, as you know from your long years of doing this kind of stuff in washington. the key is, once you get the on -- once you get the so-called cliff or the curb off to the side, then the republicans have to pay for their tax cuts. that's why we're in this mess in the first place. 60%, according to the cbo, by 2019 -- 60% of the deficit is
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caused by the bush tax cuts that were never paid for. now we have an opportunity to go back and do that right. i want -- if there are going to be tax cuts for the middle class, they have to be paid for. >> but what i sort of want the audience to understand, so much of what they're looking at now is fear. the president or boehner, none of those people can say, you know what, it's okay with me if we don't make a deal. it's okay if we go off the cliff. and so they have to look like we're working at this every day. >> think about it this way. we've already made a deal. >> yes, we have, that's right. >> the democrats -- not only does it do a great job reducing the deficit, this is the only serious deficit reduction package that's ever come out of congress. not only does it do a great job, but frankly, from a progressive democratic point of view, we've got two out of the three things we wanted. that's a pretty good deal. >> absolutely. governor howard dean, thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thanks for having me on. >> next, the romney tattoo guy is going to get the tattoo removed. but make no mistake about it. he's still crazy.
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and later, two-time oscar winner sally field will join me to talk about another important award she received from the human rights campaign, and her role in steven spielberg's latest masterpiece, "lincoln." . i have a cold, and i took nyquil, but i'm still "stubbed" up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] it doesn't have a decongestant. no way. [ male announcer ] sorry. alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms plus has a fast acting decongestant to relieve your stuffy nose. [ sighs ] thanks! [ male announcer ] you're welcome. that's the cold truth! [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus. ♪ oh what a relief it is! ♪ [ male announcer ] to learn more about the cold truth and save $1 visit alka-seltzer on facebook.
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i worked the republican party, i worked the election poll since i was about 22 years old. i knew some guy -- i knew a guy, here we are now. how long will you keep the tattoo? >> for the rest of my life.
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>> really? >> i don't know, 60, 70 years. >> well, that was then and this is now. and now, of course, the romney tattoo guy has come to his senses, sort. he now intends to have the tattoo lasered off, because as he told politico, it stands not only for a losing campaign, but for a sore loser. he's pretty shameful, as far as i'm concerned, man. there's no dignity in blaming somebody else for buying votes and paying off people. i can't get behind that or stay behind that. the guy was actually paid $15,000 to put the romney tattoo on his face after he auctioned off the space on his face on ebay. the removal process will take about a year, whereupon, he intends to off what's left of his face to the highest bidder on ebay once again. the guy's shrink remains in hiding and could not be reached for comment. coming up, mitt romney took
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one of those barack obama gifts today, free food provided by the government, but he didn't need food stamps to get it. mitt's big and final moment at the white house. you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast, long lasting relief, use doctor recommended gaviscon®. only gaviscon® forms a protective barrier that helps block stomach acid from splashing up- relieving the pain quickly. try fast, long lasting gaviscon®.
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the president of the united states is having lunch as we speak with governor romney.
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it's a private lunch, and we're going to leave it at that. i haven't looked at the menu. but i bet it was and is quite tasty. >> in the spotlight tonight, president obama bestows one final election gift. and this time, mitt romney is the recipient. at half past noon today, the winner and loser of this year's presidential election caught the holiday spirit, let by gones be by gones and ate white turkey chili and southwestern grilled chicken salad during a, quote, friendly lunch together. according to the official white house report, governor romney congratulated the president for the success of his campaign and wished him well over the coming four years. they pledged to stay in touch, particularly if opportunities to work together on shared interests arise in the future. before his lunch date, mitt romney met with the most recent losing vice presidential candidate who will never be president.
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>> how was your meeting with mr. ryan today? was it nice to see him? >> great friend. good to be with him. >> good to be with him? >> always great to see paul ryan. >> today's hatchet burying ceremony between the president and mitt romney is not unprecedented. in 2008, then president elect obama met with john mccain at the obama campaign chicago's headquarters. vice president al gore and george w. bush had a private meeting after gore officially conceded the election. and president clinton gave the defeated bob dole a presidential medal of freedom just days before the second clinton inauguration. other rivals weren't as conciliatory. herbert hoover and franklin d. roosevelt reportedly sat in silence to the inauguration. walter mondale told politico he and ronald reagan never sat down for this kind of conversation. and is a former aide to john kerry told politico that kerry and george w. bush never spoke to one another after john kerry
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conceded the election. joining me now, pulitzer prize winning columnist for "the washington post" and msnbc analyst eugene erickson. and we have all -- i won't speak for you. i have -- i have more than once, i think, said we will keep in touch, let's keep in touch, to someone i did not then keep in touch with. i don't think i've ever been as phony about it, though, as these two guys today promising to stay in touch with each other after lunch. >> yeah. it was probably -- i've heard some people say the most awkward conversation mitt romney has had since his last conversation. you know, for what it's worth, like, i don't think that either of them really want to stay in touch. i mean, the whole thing was a sill symbolic gesture and i think we can say it is a classy move to do this. it is something that is --
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it's -- even if it's purely symbolic, sometimes we need the symbolism. sometimes we need to say, especially after thanksgiving, when we might have all had our own versions of this awkward conversation, this can happen. you know? i mean, as long as obama doesn't use any of mitt romney's ideas, i'm okay with them visiting with each other. >> gene robinson, mitt romney hasn't returned my call about what happened. has president obama returned your call about what happened? >> you know, neither guy is picking up the phone. i don't quite know why. you know, you imagine at theent of that lunch romney giving obama a business card that he somehow misplaces. you know? that phone number. i just -- i had it here somewhere. but as anna marie said, it is nice. it's totally fake. this is nothing but a veneer, a sheen, but it's nice that they did it. >> it is nice. and one note of seriousnesses here. it is a great photograph to be seen around the world, that this
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is the way we conduct elections in this country. >> yes. >> and no shots are fired. it's all about that orderly and sensible and peaceable transition we have. it's a very good entry in that. the -- the real meeting that romney did have in washington today was with paul ryan, who doesn't seem to quite get -- realize his place in history. we have a big board here that shows all of the recent losing vice presidential candidates going all the way back to henry calfet lodge, which is to say during the television age, not one of them has ever made it to the presidency. and we don't yet have the new one with paul ryan on it, but he will very shortly take his position right up there statewide sarah palin on the big board. and anna marie cox, he has quite a battle with history to fight if he thinks he has a national political future after losing on the vice presidential slot. >> facts didn't really matter in the campaign so i'm not sure why
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you think they're going to matter to him now. his understanding of why they lost is so ludicrous, he probably doesn't understand he can't win either. i would like to see paul ryan go into as he said the urban areas and try to convert some voters there. i think that maybe with his backward baseball cap, he could really, you know, work that angle. what do you think, gene? >> you know, i think paul ryan is a really ambitious guy. i totally agree with lawrence. he's not going to be president. but i think he's going to give it a shot. and it will be interesting to see how far he moves away from the paul ryan that voters came to know and not particularly love of this campaign versus the paul ryan, whoever that is, that he tries to become in the next four years. but i think he's going to be in there. >> stuart stevens who ran the campaign for romney was on television this morning saying he thinks, you know, now that he thinks of it, they should have done a better job trying to reach out to minorities and to women.
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he thinks maybe reaching out to women in a better way is good. let's take a look at the republican convention and how they reached out to women. >> i love you women! >> so anna marie, what? what did they leave out? what is stewart stevens talking about? >> well, you know, i do feel loved. so that's something. but i don't feel respected or that my needs are met or that my rights are really paid attention to. i think the republican party is having to learn the hard way, that saying -- much as boyfriends have to learn sometimes, saying you love somebody doesn't mean a lot unless you follow it up with some action. and their policies are what women paid attention to. what they said and the kind of people they put up there, maybe helped a little bit on some level. i mean, there are some really great success stories in the republican party for women. i'm not going to take away from that. but when you have a party that
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is so dedicated, you know, to sort of not -- to repealing some of the progress that we've made as women, you know, women see that. and they vote for the other guy. >> anna marie cox and eugene robinson, thank you both for joining me tonight. >> thanks. coming up, two-time oscar winner sally fields joins me to talk about her new film, "lincoln" and her commitment to the continued advance of gay rights. and in the rewrite, once again, florida's stand your ground law is being invoked this week in defense of a white man who killed an unarmed black teenager. i'm breathing better. so now i can be in the scene. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers
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another angry white man in florida has stood his ground in the face of an imagined threat. another black 17-year-old high school junior who did nothing wrong is dead. i first heard this story on monday morning on my flight back to new york after the thanksgiving holiday. the flight attendant who told me about it, a faithful viewer of this program, will be attending jordan davis's funeral and burial on saturday. last friday, the day after jordan davis led his family's thanksgiving prayer for the first time in his young life, he was sitting in the back seat of his friend's car, parked outside
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a convenience store in jacksonville, florida, while another friend was in the store buying fwum and soda. the kids had had the music in their parked carjacked up pretty loud. and that is why jordan davis is being buried this weekend. parked beside them was 45-year-old michael dunn, who had just come from his son's wedding, where he admits to having had only a couple of drinks. it's safe to say this guy and jordan davis had different tastes in music. michael dunn decided he had the authority to tell the kids to turn down the volume. the kids did what most kids would do, and what i certainly would have done, under the circumstances. nothing. they didn't turn down the volume for the suddenly self-appointed volume cop of jacksonville, florida. so michael dunn, who was waiting, i think we can say impatiently, for his girlfriend
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to return to the car with some more wine took out his handgun and started shooting. he fired eight bullets at the four kids in the car. like most amateur cops, he completely missed his target with six of those bullets. the other two hit jordan, who was sitting in the middle of the back seat. michael dunn didn't behave in a very cop-like way after that. he immediately fled the scene. the kids quickly piled out of their car, realizing they weren't injured and looked back to see jordan slumped alone in the back seat. a witness got michael dunn's plate number and gave it to police, who tracked him down 173 miles away from the shooting the next day and arrested him. yesterday he was formally charged with murder in the second degree of junior tan davis, and the attempted murder of the other kids in the car.
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his lawyer told reporters yesterday that she is considering using florida's stand your ground law as a defense. and, of course, his lawyer knows that the law doesn't say you can stand your ground against loud music and shoot and kill kids who refuse to turn down the volume. so now that michael dunn has a lawyer, he now has a story. and his story is, as told through his lawyer, that he thought he saw a shotgun in the car, and felt his life was threatened. but he didn't feel his life was threatened enough to call the police after being in a shootout with dangerous kids who had a shotgun, and were still on the loose, according to his story. a story that he and his lawyer surely will be rewriting as they approach trial. the police say the kids did not have a gun. the killer's lawyer has offered this clever counter to the
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police. how hard did they look? the lawyer says the kids could have thrown away their shotgun, even though they did not leave the scene, and they and their car were searched by the police. after michael dunn killed jordan davis, he behaved exactly the way a hitman would behave. he fled the scene like a guilty murderer. a guilty murderer who may have had a few too many drinks. last week, jordan davis was very excited about landing a job at mcdonald's. on friday night, his parents got the call that no parent can bear to even imagine. jordan's father was notified about the shooting first, and then he had to call his ex-wife, jordan's mother, and is tell her what happened to their son. the boy they've loved for 17
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years. the boy they were eagerly watching become a man. >> and he said -- he said jordan's dead. and i'm just -- i just lost it.
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you can see the traps that both of these parents are in. >> yeah. yeah. and the two-parenting people -- the two sides of this coin that
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came together that became abraham lincoln. she carried all the emotionality and he carried -- he didn't show any of it, but in some ways he handed it over to her a lot and she felt everything that he wouldn't allow himself to feel. you do see that in relationships, where one person is the one that feels everything. and then the other person doesn't really feel responsible for having to feel all the pains and angers and that was mary's role. >> so martin ritt directs you to an oscar. robert benton wright directs you to your next oscar. steven spielberg has directed you certainly to a nomination here. you're going to have a very busy award season. >> well, i don't know that. and i -- you know, i don't -- thank you. but i can't -- hardly -- >> are you embarrassed at the moment? a little? >> well, because i can't really respond to that.
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in reality, the gift is, you know, having opportunities to do this work. to tell this story, to stand across from daniel, and to work with the brilliant amazing master, steven. with tony kushner's exquisite words oh. so it's like i had died and gone to heaven. for me, that's enough. >> let's talk about your big night, a big acceptance night this year, with your son, human rights campaign. what was that like to be introduced on to the stage and in a loving way by your son to an audience that loves you. >> i have two-fold feeling here. first of all, it was hard to do that, and i was reluctant to do it for a very long time, because i feel it's sam's business and not mine and not mine to talk about writing on anything that's mine. it's not. it's his. and he wanted me to do it. and then when they asked him to
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present me, i thought, oh, no, no. this can't be right. no, no, no. and he wanted to do that. but after i -- after i have this conversation with you, i'm going to try not to talk about it much of anymore. >> okay. >> because, you know, then i'm doing exactly what i didn't want to do. you know, i'm -- i don't want to talk about -- i have three sons. their sexuality is their business. and if any of the other two are listening, they're going, oh, jesus, god in heaven, mother, please don't talk anymore. and sam, he deserves that respect as well. but he wanted to do this, he feels very a part of this campaign, of this movement for equal rights. human rights campaign. and it is that. and i really wanted to speak out because i have a very specific story, i think, that hadn't been told. and i am outraged for the families that cannot learn from their children, something that perhaps they're rigidly holding on to from the past that their children might be able to help
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them learn, that nature has given these young people, you know -- this was not sam's choice, this is what nature did. and he is gloriously sam. i wouldn't change one ounce of him. and the families that can't embrace this and help their children embrace themselves, who shut themselves not only their hearts but homes is unforgivable to me. it's absolutely unforgivable. because here it's a crisis time in these young lives when they're trying to figure out who they are. it's hard under the best of circumstances. but you add this extra ingredient of society's approval or disapproval, and then they have no place to go. i'm sorry. that's not right. that's -- and so i spoke out. >> you spoke out. and the campaign recognized that, and awarded you the award as a result. you know, we're wrapping up now. can we get a two-shot? we have a two-shot. we share a fan.


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